An American Pope!
- Thread starter BrianNole777
- Start date
I was listening to the livestream of the event from St. Peter's on my local radio station, and the reporters and hosts were absolutely stunned. They have continued to reporting on it and talking to various experts and observers throughout the day. As an interested and invested humanist, I am feeling hopeful and optimistic about this pope in the same way that I did about Francis.
The common opinion was that the cardinals didn't want an American Pope since America already dominates the world in so many ways so this was indeed a shock.
One of the lesser known issues now plaguing the Vatican is the financial challenges posed by old school Cardinals and church officials who spent money with little to no thought of costs and budgets. Francis started a process to better financial management but some of the Vatican personnel frankly have refused to obey his directives. Leo is well aware of this and there was talk that his being an American who understands money was a factor.
It seems like they could find someone competent to run the finances, I hope.
Agree. Seems like a good man. I hope he can start to clean up the massive amounts of financial corruption, theft, embezzling, and institutionalized sex abuse and child rape that is rampant in the Catholic Church. You'd be hard pressed to find an institution that has a greater level of moral bankcruptcy than the Catholic Church. Making that den of iniquity even remotely respectable again would be a herculean task. I wish him well.
The Vatican certainly has less of that than our organizations in America like the government (a President taking a $400 million plane from Qatar as a "gift"), public schools, Boy scouts, etc. although none is acceptable.
Separating Facts About Clergy Abuse From Fiction
Quality research and reason need to take precedence over emotion if we truly want to keep children and families safe from sexual abuse in the the Church or anywhere.
Nah. (Muffled laughter). Nice try.The Vatican certainly has less of that than our organizations in America like the government (a President taking a $400 million plane from Qatar as a "gift"), public schools, Boy scouts, etc. although none is acceptable.
Separating Facts About Clergy Abuse From Fiction
Quality research and reason need to take precedence over emotion if we truly want to keep children and families safe from sexual abuse in the the Church or anywhere.www.psychologytoday.com
Comparing the wrongdoings of public schools and the Boy Scouts to the Catholic Church? Are you kidding me? Lmfao. Sorry but not even close by any measure, not even in the same universe.
The fact that you’re using the U.S. gov’t as a comparison shows how low the level of immorality and skullduggery of the Catholic Church is. Even then it’s a bad comparison because when you compare the misdeeds of the U.S. government’s 249 years to the almost millennial existence of the Catholic Church (using the east-west schism as a starting point), the sordid history and misdeeds of the Catholic Church make the us government look like heaven on earth.
Sadly enough you had to compare three secular institutions to a religious institution that’s ultimate goal was morality and spirituality. You should’ve picked Jim Jones and his Temple, then maybe the Catholic Church would’ve scored a draw
So I see a certain poster likely belongs to a congregation of perfect souls. Do you always arrive at Backwoods Primitive Holiness early so your mail order preacher can give you one of the best snakes???
The comparisons are fair.
The Boy Scouts went bankrupt because of their sexual assault cases, sadly.
There's more abuse in public schools than the Catholic Church, as my link showed.
The people that obey the teachings of the Catholic Church become saints.
Regardless. I try to focus on the sacraments. It's the sacraments that Jesus gave to the Catholic Church that are the best guarantee of eternal life like the Eucharist and Confession and these are valid even if 5% of priests are evil.
This life is short. Eternity is forever.
Boy Scouts of America changes name after bankruptcy and sexual abuse claims
Organization will become Scouting America after decades of turmoil and flagging membership numbers
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The comparisons are fair.
The Boy Scouts went bankrupt because of their sexual assault cases, sadly.
There's more abuse in public schools than the Catholic Church, as my link showed.
The people that obey the teachings of the Catholic Church become saints.
Regardless. I try to focus on the sacraments. It's the sacraments that Jesus gave to the Catholic Church that are the best guarantee of eternal life like the Eucharist and Confession and these are valid even if 5% of priests are evil.
This life is short. Eternity is forever.
Boy Scouts of America changes name after bankruptcy and sexual abuse claims
Organization will become Scouting America after decades of turmoil and flagging membership numberswww.theguardian.com
Huh. I thought it was offered and there are ongoing discussions. Didnt know it was actually accepted.The Vatican certainly has less of that than our organizations in America like the government (a President taking a $400 million plane from Qatar as a "gift"), public schools, Boy scouts, etc. although none is acceptable.
Separating Facts About Clergy Abuse From Fiction
Quality research and reason need to take precedence over emotion if we truly want to keep children and families safe from sexual abuse in the the Church or anywhere.
It really shows how uninformed and out of touch the media is. They should report what they know not what they think or want.
Not even a remotely fair comparison:The comparisons are fair.
The Boy Scouts went bankrupt because of their sexual assault cases, sadly.
There's more abuse in public schools than the Catholic Church, as my link showed.
The people that obey the teachings of the Catholic Church become saints.
Regardless. I try to focus on the sacraments. It's the sacraments that Jesus gave to the Catholic Church that are the best guarantee of eternal life like the Eucharist and Confession and these are valid even if 5% of priests are evil.
This life is short. Eternity is forever.
Boy Scouts of America changes name after bankruptcy and sexual abuse claims
Organization will become Scouting America after decades of turmoil and flagging membership numbers
1) Boy Scouts are a secular organization. The Church is a spiritual institution with its entire mission to combat immoral behavior, sin, and to uplift people, providing them comfort and solace. Yet the Catholic Church has become actually a safe haven to perpetuate the very crimes and immorality it was created to fight against.
2) The Boy Scouts is a modern organization, founded in 1910, so its a little more than a century old. The Catholic Church has been committing these type of crimes against for almost one-thousand years. On record,circa 1051, clerical sexuality immorality has been a real issue. Peter Damian condemned priests engaged in sexual immorality in his book Liber Gormmorrhianus. Pope Leo IX supported Damian's endeavors.
Sexual immorality was also a big issue addressed by the Gregorian Reformation in the mid 11th century.
Even more insidious than all of this, is the in-depth and consistent manner in which the Catholic Church would cover up thousands of cases of child rape done at the hands of Catholic priests... the very people that are charged with providing spiritual guidance, comfort and compassion. This is very core of pure evil, to harm young children you are supposed to protect.
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1. ) Your claims are inaccurate. The Catholic Church is not a "safe haven" to perpetuate abuse. Quite the contrary, the Catholic Church is one of the safest organizations for children today.
There are always going to be 5-10% of people in any group that commit immortal acts. Churches are no different from schools in that regard just because they are spiritual. Remember Jesus: He had 12 Apostles and one of them was Judas who betrayed Him.
2.) The Catholic Church reformed in 2002 with the Dallas Charter and since then, there have been hardly any abuse cases. The abuse cases you read about today are mostly from decades ago, before the Dallas Charter.
This is from the Psychology Today link that I posted that you didn't read:
4. The Church has used best practices to deal with this issue since 2002.
The incidents of clerical abuse in recent years (i.e., since 2002) are down to a trickle.
The Dallas Charter and subsequent Church reforms have resulted in a number of industry-standard and even groundbreaking policies and procedures to keep children safe in Church-related activities and keep abusing priests out of ministry.
Separating Facts About Clergy Abuse From Fiction
Quality research and reason need to take precedence over emotion if we truly want to keep children and families safe from sexual abuse in the the Church or anywhere.
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Not that it affects me, but I hope this Pope is better than the last one. He was the worst in decades.
You keep posting Psychology Today and Thomas Plante's work on sex scandals in Catholic Church like he's an objective, 3rd party auditor.1. ) Your claims are inaccurate. The Catholic Church is not a "safe haven" to perpetuate abuse. Quite the contrary, the Catholic Church is one of the safest organizations for children today.
There are always going to be 5-10% of people in any group that commit immortal acts. Churches are no different from schools in that regard just because they are spiritual. Remember Jesus: He had 12 Apostles and one of them was Judas who betrayed Him.
2.) The Catholic Church reformed in 2002 with the Dallas Charter and since then, there have been hardly any abuse cases. The abuse cases you read about today are mostly from decades ago, before the Dallas Charter.
This is from the Psychology Today link that I posted that you didn't read:
4. The Church has used best practices to deal with this issue since 2002.
The incidents of clerical abuse in recent years (i.e., since 2002) are down to a trickle.
The Dallas Charter and subsequent Church reforms have resulted in a number of industry-standard and even groundbreaking policies and procedures to keep children safe in Church-related activities and keep abusing priests out of ministry.
Separating Facts About Clergy Abuse From Fiction
Quality research and reason need to take precedence over emotion if we truly want to keep children and families safe from sexual abuse in the the Church or anywhere.
Plante is a shill for the Catholic Church.
Plante defending the Catholic Church in their millennium long, sordid and repugnant history of child rape is like Pravda defending the Soviet Union's role in their brutal crackdown of the Hungarian Uprising in 1956.
Professor Plante's work has been peer reviewed.
If you think you can debunk him, go ahead and do it. (Muffled laughter.)
Here's a book from Professor Phillip Jenkins when he was at Penn State. It gives the same information.
Professor Jenkins is not Catholic or affiliated with the Catholic Church.
Link:
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The Catholic Church is not perfect, as nothing human is. On balance, I believe that the Catholic Church, like all the major religions, has been a force for good in the world, and I am hopeful that it can continue developing its focus and resources to help humanity.
People only judge religious organizations by their worst members...90% of priests/pastors are good but they don't get the media coverage.
People tend to judge all things, e.g., organizations, individuals, etc., by their worst aspects. It is a truly unfortunate aspect of human nature that has persisted well beyond its utility.
Not in my experience.I think some groups like doctors and nurses are the exception.
I think our culture respects doctors and nurses very much overall even though 5-10% are not good as in any profession.
Nurses Still the Most Trusted Profession, Doctors Fall to Fifth
Trust slipping across nearly all professions, Gallup poll finds
www.medpagetoday.com
I disagree. If people were to judge things the opposite way what would be the result? Standards for everything are bad enough without pumping the rainbows and unicorns everywhere.
1) Peer Review is not a litmus test of any sort, and its certainly not an objective measurement.
2) 5-10% of people might be prone to committing crimes and sordid actions but that’s a horrible percentage for a spiritual institution with the mission of uplifting humanity and providing comfort and compassion and empathy to the weak, sick and downtrodden masses of humanity.
3) Even worse than that 5-10% of the catholic clergy who committed those crime of raping young children, is the leadership who covered up those crimes. That is beyond criminal, that’s just the essence of pure evil.
4) I understand you might feel the need to defend the Catholic Church but there would be far more dignity and honor in accepting that the Catholic Church is a thoroughly corrupt and immoral institution instead of rationalizations that it’s corruption and its cases of child rape are no more frequent than that of other secular institutions
1.) Then prove his claims wrong. It should be easy for you to do.
2.) You're ignoring the over 90% of clergy that are good and holy people because of your biases. That makes no sense. I bet you don't judge any other group by that metric. For example, doctors take an oath to "Do No Harm" yet maybe 10% do...look at the data of medical malpractice. I'm not going to disregard the entire medical profession because of that.
3.) The coverups were indeed horrible but were also committed by a small percentage of clergy. I'm not going to judge ALL clergy by the small percentage who commit evil acts, as you do.
4.) I disagree, obviously. The Catholic Church is in the "business" of saving people's souls. That's what it's done for billions of people over 2,000 years. Jesus gave the Church the Eucharist and Confession.
That's why I go.
You're free to disagree, of course. We probably don't agree on any subject so I'm going to disengage this conversation.
1) Very easy to do: Plante's a shill.
2) What makes no sense is that the Catholic Church and its employees should have a standard of behavior that is far higher than any secular group such as a local school or the Boy Scouts. Yet it does not. 10% is a number way too high for a spiritual group to engage in raping children and other horrendous acts
3) Small percentage is a rationalization but even then its irrelevant, because no matter the percentage, its unspeakable that church leadership would coverup child rape cases instead of punishing these predators. So these horrible crimes are just compounded by the fact that the superiors, who should've held these clergy committing sexual crimes against children, chose to cover it up. There are two separate things here: 1) the clergy raping young children 2) Church leadership covering up these horrendous crimes.
4) The Catholic Church does not save souls. Doing good deeds does not earn you salvation.
Asking Jesus for forgiveness is what saves souls. You can do that in a church. You can do that in a boat with a 6 pack on ice, you do that in a stand in the woods while you wait for a 6 pointer to walk by, you can do that while driving up to Tallahassee for a football game.
I do agree with your statement on the medical profession that you posted in this thread.
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I agree with this. The medical profesionals that are not getting respect are the ones that are incompetent or ineffective. Or they are in a field of medicine that has a large degree of quackery in it, such as psychiatry.I think our culture respects doctors and nurses very much overall even though 5-10% are not good as in any profession.
Nurses Still the Most Trusted Profession, Doctors Fall to Fifth
Trust slipping across nearly all professions, Gallup poll finds
